New project - brainstorming time

[Morpheus]

So I've been bouncing around an idea all winter about an idea for a new rig. I've chatted with a few people on and off the forum, and I'm looking for some input, as IMO, this new project will be a bit of an undertaking, so I want to make sure I don't miss or forget anything.

The reason for wanting to build a new rig is 2 fold

1) more space, I need seating for 6 now, and the 5 seater Xterra doesn't cut it.
2) greater towing capacity, because a larger RV is required because I need sleeping for 6 now too.

The vehicle I initially decided and settled on was the 2008 Pathfinder LE 5.6L V8 (the only year Nissan put the Titan engine in the pathfinder)

My plan was to Titan swap the front end (head start, the V8 pathfinder comes with a Titan front diff pre-installed)
and SAS the back with a Titan rear diff w/elocker

This would give me a 7 seater vehicle, with a 7000lb towing capacity, I could bolt a Titan front lift kit, and set the rear basically where ever I wanted using rear leaf springs and the solid rear axle.

Fast forward to today.

I have been looking at the auto auctions, and on auto trader, and although there are a few for sale on auto trader, there is not a large selection, and the price they're asking, once I spend the money on the front titan swap and rear SAS, wouldn't allow me any leftover money for anything else.

So that got me thinking.

Would I be farther ahead to go all the way to an Armada?

The Armada is available from 2004-2013, many more vehicles available, many more going through the auction. I can probably get an 04-05 Armada for $5000 less than a 08 Pathfinder.

The Armada is already Titan swapped, just needs a lift installed.

I would SAS the back and eliminate the rear IFS completely.

I would have 9000lbs towing capacity instead of 7000lbs towing capacity.

The Titan has a 7" suspension lift, and with a modified 3" body lift (would have to use a Titan kit, and make it work for the Armada body) it should fit 37" tires (apparently it does on the Titan)

The specs:
R51:

WIDTH 6 ft. 0.8 in. (72.8 in.) HEIGHT 6 ft. 0.3 in. (72.3 in.)
LENGTH 16 ft. 0.3 in. (192.3 in.) GROUND CLEARANCE 0 ft. 8.7 in. (8.7 in.)
FRONT TRACK 5 ft. 1.8 in. (61.8 in.) REAR TRACK 5 ft. 1.8 in. (61.8 in.)
WHEEL BASE 9 ft. 4.2 in. (112.2 in.)
CURB WEIGHT 4866 lbs

TA60:
WIDTH 6 ft. 6.8 in. (78.8 in.) HEIGHT 6 ft. 6.7 in. (78.7 in.)
LENGTH 17 ft. 2.9 in. (206.9 in.) GROUND CLEARANCE 0 ft. 10.7 in. (10.7 in.)
FRONT TRACK 5 ft. 7.5 in. (67.5 in.) REAR TRACK 5 ft. 7.5 in. (67.5 in.)
WHEEL BASE 10 ft. 3.2 in. (123.2 in.)
CURB WEIGHT 5290 lbs.

The track width isn't really applicable, as the titan swap on the R51 and the SAS would bring it to the same track width as the TA60 anyways, so the other specs are:

body is 6" wider
body is 15" longer
body is 6" higher
wheel base is 11" longer
weight is 400lb heavier
2" more ground clearance

I'm thinking there's going to be a lot less "fabrication" involved with an Armada, that all the Titan parts will bolt right on, where the Pathfinder there will be a lot of custom stuff.

The difference in body size is negligible. The only significant thing is the length.

400lbs heavier is nothing, that's less than 2 of me, I actually expected it to be much more.

Looking for opinions, input, what haven't I thought of, etc...

Thx.

[Morpheus]

[Bow_Tied]

I like it. I was going to suggest it earlier but thought you'd find it too large. I didn't realize though that they were rear IFS. Are those known to be weak? Or are you planning to get more adventurous?

[Bow_Tied]

Also, you could import a 7 passenger turbo diesel Safari. It'd be slower and way less luxurious, but a little more at home off-road and is 4 coil for easier lifts kits and already robust axle-wise.

[Miner]

Armada, for 99% of the time absolutely a better idea than the trying this with a V8 Pathfinder.

Don't even think about an 04, you fix these things so you know better than that.

If the Aramada and the Titan followed the same production decisions:
- 2004 ... avoid like the plaque
- 2005 - 2006 Basically the same solid truck with 305hp 378lb.ft
- 2007 gains a few horsepower with the addition of variable intake valve timing and improved exhaust with 317hp and 385lb.ft
- 2008 - cosmetic changes, larger diameter front brakes that require 18" wheels, and CAN-BUS

Now modifying an Armada as an off-road rig... are you nuts! I mean completely batty, off your meds, insane....
If you've watched me at all over the last 5 years a full size rig has no place on the majority of the trails the club frequents. I have more pine-striping than paint. However if you are willing to give up Bob C, and all the other trails I don't know because I don't fit, and run Ardbeg, Gooderham, Hydro Line (most of), and the more fire access type trrais an Armada could be a good rig.

I don't know how happy you'll be with a high lift Armada. It may be too unbalanced for the climbs that I think you enjoy. A mild lift and 35's would take an Armada through anything I'd think of putting it through, and can be achieved without the rear axle swap...but that would be sweet.

I'd do a search for "Pops" on clubtitan and clubarmada, pretty sure he's a 6" lift with 35's (although I think this pic is 33s)




What you're talking about can be done...Club Armada - Solid Axle Conversion...might look like this....

But lifted like this...

[Miner]

Started thinking on this again, you and I are in the same boat as far as wanting a vehicle that will handle anything with 6 passengers along for the ride. To complicate things I'm going to assume that your stuck on Nissan's so HD Rams and SD Fords with solid axles are out, so are good options from Toyota, and crew cab half tons (other than the Titan). Are you committed to the SUV platform as well? If not was a crew cab Frontier ever available with a front bench seat? A Frontier would be a much better size for wheeling, Titan parts are available to upgrade the suspension and diffs.

Speaking of Titan parts the rear axles are JUNK from the factory. If you insist on using them to retain the tone rings for the ABS you either need an 06-07 with a tru-trac installed, or an 08+ with a e-locker or after market locker.

[Bow_Tied]

I think he was looking full size for the towing needs. Fronty is limited there.

A suburban on 37s would likely be a lot cheaper, but understand that brand loyalty is desired, especially considering where you work.

[FrontyFlyer]

This will be interesting. I agree the armada is a better starting platform

If your going through all the work to SAS the rear consider a dana 60 or you will be downsizing ring gear size slightly with the m226. If you plan to put bigger tires and push the towing limits, I'd recommend beefing up the m226 with an ARB at least.

Spicer makes a bolt on dana 60 for the titan but I believe its in the $2k range... Much cheaper to source a used one out of a 2500 weld on the tabs yourself and find a way to integrate the ABS sensors and brakes.

I'm on my 3rd m226 now, the first one failed with 33"s, 2nd one lasted 2 weeks on 35"s. This time around i beefed up with an ARB and can say its been through more abuse than ever before and running 35"s. Cant imagine a stocker is gonna last long with V8 power and more weight...

[deeker]

What about an imported diesel Patrol or Safari (Y60 or Y61)? Fun, different, capable, good amount of space, towing capacity...

[the x kid]

Been in a Armada. Me likee. I pick Armada.

[Bow_Tied]

What about an imported diesel Patrol or Safari (Y60 or Y61)? Fun, different, capable, good amount of space, towing capacity...

I suggested the same, but now I am wondering about the towing capacity. Even the turbo ones are not fast unloaded. If he wants a 4500lb+ trailer, I doubt the Safari would be a good choice for driving down the 400 with 6 people and gear.

[Bow_Tied]

Well I posted that on memory and after checking there seem to be various thoughts on the Y60. Some comments say 3500kg and others say 2000kg will have you down to second gear climbing a big hill. Seems to depend on the trans too. I am not sure what the early Y61s tow which I think are now eligible for import.

[Morpheus]

Armada, for 99% of the time absolutely a better idea than the trying this with a V8 Pathfinder.

Don't even think about an 04, you fix these things so you know better than that.

If the Aramada and the Titan followed the same production decisions:
- 2004 ... avoid like the plaque
- 2005 - 2006 Basically the same solid truck with 305hp 378lb.ft
- 2007 gains a few horsepower with the addition of variable intake valve timing and improved exhaust with 317hp and 385lb.ft
- 2008 - cosmetic changes, larger diameter front brakes that require 18" wheels, and CAN-BUS

Now modifying an Armada as an off-road rig... are you nuts! I mean completely batty, off your meds, insane....
If you've watched me at all over the last 5 years a full size rig has no place on the majority of the trails the club frequents. I have more pine-striping than paint. However if you are willing to give up Bob C, and all the other trails I don't know because I don't fit, and run Ardbeg, Gooderham, Hydro Line (most of), and the more fire access type trrais an Armada could be a good rig.

I don't know how happy you'll be with a high lift Armada. It may be too unbalanced for the climbs that I think you enjoy. A mild lift and 35's would take an Armada through anything I'd think of putting it through, and can be achieved without the rear axle swap...but that would be sweet.

I'd do a search for "Pops" on clubtitan and clubarmada, pretty sure he's a 6" lift with 35's (although I think this pic is 33s)

The IRS on the Armada is JUNK, absolute garbage. It would have to be the first thing to go.
The only real issue with the early production Titans, is the weak rear diff.

The Diff I would use would be from a Pro-X Titan 2011+ w/E-locker, so no spider gears to worry about breaking, etc..

That way, I could build an 04-05 Armada, but use 2011+ parts and not have the early production problems.


As for the trails, will the Titan not fit on BobC? As I was looking and comparing specs between the pathfinder and the armada, as I mentioned, the armada is only a foot longer than the pathfinder..

The Titan is 18ft ish to 20ft ish depending on the model, that's at least another foot longer than the Armada.

Which model is your's Miner, how long is your truck?

[agentorange]

Mike, you seem to have a well thought out (and very cool) plan. You don't see many Armadas on the trail - always nice to see something different! Length shouldn't be much of a problem if the wheelbase is only a little longer than an Xterra. Break-over angle could be a concern but with a lift and large tires that problem will be less serious. There are a couple of tight spots on Bob C but (as we saw on Norland last AW) sometimes a larger vehicle can just take a different line that isn't an option for s SWB vehicle. I think it often comes down to driver experience and knowing your own rig. That said, some of the trails are narrow so your paint can get scratched by branches, etc.
I say build the rig you want and enjoy it on the trails that suit it.

[FrontyFlyer]

The Diff I would use would be from a Pro-X Titan 2011+ w/E-locker, so no spider gears to worry about breaking, etc..

Somewhere around 2010 they switch from 2 spiders to 4. But I dont think its possible to eliminate them all together and I'd still be worried if you plan on wheeling with bigger tires. If there was another update in 2011 I'm curious as to what changes they made.

This is inside a blown up 2010 m226 out of a pro4 with E-locker with the updated 4 spider gears. The spider gears held up but left side gear failed.


ARB is your best bet for off road abuse.
-Hardened billet tool steel carier vs mild steel cast
-Dual locking rings vs 1
-chromoly gears vs hardened steel
-higher tooth count on the spiders = more tooth contact
-Totally rebuildable


Lets be realistic, how many people actually go beyond splashing in puddles on an M226. The info out there is often misleading bandwagon jango and its hard to find actual real world facts about what kind abuse they can take. From my experience, the factory M226 carrier is crap, I would put my bet on a non e-locker being stronger as the side gear splines have more bit on the axle shaft vs the e-locker.

[Morpheus]

I've seen tonnes of the M226 carriers fail, but I don't think I've ever seen one with an e-locker fail, so I honestly made an opinion that they must be stronger than the non e-locker.

If I end up going down this road, I would probably put the M226 in for now, and if I do somehow end up breaking it, I'd replace it with a pro rock 60

[FrontyFlyer]

I kind of making an opinion too, just by looking at them side by side I'd put my money on a non locker, but that does us no good off road. Long story short, ended up buying 2 scrapped M226 axles (e-lock and non locking) to get the parts to rebuild mine. Best possible combo: E-locker housing, Non locking axle shafts, ARB carrier (longer shafts in shorter housing allow the splines to bite the side gears more)

[Nd4SpdSe]

Kinda makes me sad, I had always thought that if I had to replace the X and with something bigger, i'd go with the V8 Pathfinder....guess easier said than done...

Just as an idea, I'm sure the cost doesn't validate spending the money as compared to the price difference in buying a V6 vs V8, but what about putting a Stillen S/C on a v6?

I thought about that, but the $4000 +/- price tag (I'm just guessing on the price tag) isn't really worth it IMO when you're at the drawing board phase and can basically choose anything you want.

And nothing beats the displacement of a V8! Lol.

[Miner]

If the Armada is really only 400lbs heavier than the V8 Pathfinder I think it's the right choice...of the two. Also the Armada recommends regular fuel, pretty sure the Pathfinder recommends premium.

[Morpheus]

At this point I'm 99% sure that I'm going to go the route of an Armada, but looking at finances, not until next spring.

I'm going to slowly collect all the parts I need over the next while, then worry about the actual truck early next year. I want to make sure I can build it pretty much in one shot. From what I have read, some of the PRG suspension parts can take a couple months to come in.

Over the summer I'll keep a better look out at the trails and maybe pull out the measuring tape a few times to make sure I shouldn't have any issues on the regular trails we go on.

Then I'll have the Xterra up for sale in the spring. (any offers? lol)

I've already started, got the rear axle ready to go, now just need the rest.