Do I have a leg to stand on?? (Need input regarding labour)

[262 Chevy]

Had the starter replaced today at canadian tire, they quoted me 2 hours of work... went in sometime after 1030 and was done by 1110 (i was there waiting so i know this for a fact)... when i asked the guy why the h-e-double hockeysticks i was still paying for 2 hours labour he said cause they charge according to the industry leading value and thats 2 hours so if they finish early it doesnt cost less... i said ok thats all fine and good but doing a "2 hour job" in 40 minutes seems a little unrealistic... if i call and speak to the manager do i have a leg to stand on or am i just wasting my time?

[studum]

It doesn't hurt to try - their fallback will be axactly as you said, and the fact that you agreed to that charge before the work. Regardless, I would be upset also and would try to get something back on it, even if it's only 1 hr.

I had a very similar situation when I was getting my old car safetied. I took it to CT because htey were open when I was off of work and all it needed was a new sway bar endlink. They ordered the part and had it delivered. Then they quoted the labour for 1 hr to change it.

I knew it was going to take 15 minutes max. I tried to get them to put the car down so I could do it in the parking lot myself and they said they can't allow work to be done in the parking lot. (It would've been cheaper to buy the wrench and do it than pay the labour). I was in between a rock and a hard place, because I needed it safetied then and there so ultimately I had to agree to their charge or not get my safety. The manager wasn't there so I had no-one else to speak to, and for a $50 fight in the end I decided it wasn't worth the hassle for me.

With that said, I avoid CT like the plague if I can. In your case I would definitely get in touch with the service manager to see if anything can be done. Sure it's by the book, but it's also dishonest - and it's this type of thing that gives mechanics a bad rep.

Good luck!

[Bow_Tied]

Lesson learned, CTC = $$$$$ I could rant all day about them as a customer and past employee.

However this flat rate thing is not one I have dealt with. I don't like this system as it allows the mechanics to 15 job hours of work in an 8 hour shift. Great coin for the mech, but to me can only encourage short cuts. Mind you, there are a few cases were the books short change the mech and you would win, but that isn't the norm.

[262 Chevy]

agreed, went to them cause there down the block and i work at 7 tonight so i needed it done and done fast... last time they get my business... my usual guy is in sarnia and charges to the minute or by the estimate +10% if he goes over by a ton... stand up guy stand up work... this is bs... short changed me 100 bucks... coulda used that for gas lol

[petespath]

Go back man. Speak to the manager.

[Morpheus]

I can't speak for the actual time quoted, as I don't have a book to look up times for vehicles other than nissan products.

1st, did you ask them to diagnose the starter, or did you ask them to install a starter.

If they diagnosed the starter, figure on 1/2 hour labour for diagnostics. That leaves 1.5 hours labour for the starter it's self, which doesn't sound too far off, just off the top of my head.

As far as the length of time it takes to fix the vehicle. The flat rate system is the way the automotive industry runs. It promotes productivity, but it also allows for technicians to upgrade skills and tools and recieve something back for their time an effort.

Any vehicle can be fixed with a hammer and an adjustable wrench by a kid that dropped out of high school, but do you want that person working on your vehicle?

I have a mechanic in my shop that has invested over $100,000 in tools and a tool box. All of that was invested so he could fix cars faster, and move on to the next one and make more money. Just as there are days that he can make 15 hours in an 8 hour shift, there are also days that he only makes 4 hours in an 8 hour shift.

[Adam]

The CT that I go to when my usual person is busy is great. When I had to take the truck back for alignment because I changed something they only charged me half price and the one guy that does it has a pathfinder so I know he knows how to work on them.

Anyway that blows, every shop I have been to whether it is a CT or not has charged me how long it actually took them to do the work and not what the book says. Since I am a bit of an OCD case I always watch in the shop so I know how long it took.

Fight it man!

[Bow_Tied]

Ya know, Mike has made some great points. The auto repair industry has changed a lot over the years. I am not sure if modern cars need less maintenance or more people are fixing their own stuff or if there are too many shops but the need to increase profitability is bigger than ever. Some dealerships are forcing their techs to buy tools and tool boxes through the dealership even - and a just a tool box can be upward of $10k (heard that about the new local Hyundai dealership). These techs have no choice if they want to work for the dealership and would take a looong to pay it off at exact billed time.
The cost to run these business has also gone crazy with taxes, environmental laws and such. So many shops, such as Midas for example, have sales bonuses for the managers to increase the volume of business (why you hear of so many stories of people getting work done that they didn't really need).

The key is to find a shop you can trust will do the job right the first time for a reasonable price. It will even out in the end. Just avoid CTC unless you have no other choice, which happens I know.

[Snafu]

and the fact that you agreed to that charge before the work.

Do you pre-agree to the charge (parts/labour) or just to the work? Big difference in what you pre-agree on

I tried to get them to put the car down so I could do it in the parking lot myself and they said they can't allow work to be done in the parking lot.

Instead of asking maybe just do it...tell them to get it down...do the work and safetied later (or that day if you could leave it). I've been between the rock and hard place so I know sometimes you just can't do it.

Any vehicle can be fixed with a hammer and an adjustable wrench by a kid that dropped out of high school, but do you want that person working on your vehicle?

That is basically what CT uses with a licensed mechanic somewhere on the premises. When I was young and foolish I ignorantly thought the CT near me would be like the one back home...decent mechanics who would help you out. Wrong.

Just as there are days that he can make 15 hours in an 8 hour shift, there are also days that he only makes 4 hours in an 8 hour shift.

Out of curiosity are mechanics paid by the job hour (or compensated for this) or by the hours they are there?

[Morpheus]

Any vehicle can be fixed with a hammer and an adjustable wrench by a kid that dropped out of high school, but do you want that person working on your vehicle?

That is basically what CT uses with a licensed mechanic somewhere on the premises. When I was young and foolish I ignorantly thought the CT near me would be like the one back home...decent mechanics who would help you out. Wrong.

The "law" states that you are allowed to have 2 apprentices for every 1 mechanic on shift.

The "law" says nothing about non-registered apprentices, other than they're not "tehcnically" allowed to touch wheel nuts (remove tires, brakes, suspension, etc..)

Just as there are days that he can make 15 hours in an 8 hour shift, there are also days that he only makes 4 hours in an 8 hour shift.

Out of curiosity are mechanics paid by the job hour (or compensated for this) or by the hours they are there?

Flat rate is paid by the job hour. If he only produced 4 hours of work, he gets paid for 4 hours of work, even if he's been at the shop for 12 hours.

[Snafu]

Hopefully this does not happen often.

[petespath]

Hey Josh
I think you have 2 legs to stand on.

[262 Chevy]

thanks pete:P i went in there with the starter already (bought it at a different ct the day before) i told them i didnt need it diagnosed i knew it was the starter, from the time they pulled it in undid the 3 bolts and took it out under 40 minutes... i know for next time i talked to my guy in sarnia who charges me by the minute or whaatever he quoted me (depends whats less) and he made a point that if they go out and buy a 2000 dollar machine that helps them do the work faster thats how they make the money... sucks but im aware now... although i dont think u need much more then a wrench to change starter...


if i didnt work that day i woulda done it myself... oh well

/rant

[Nd4SpdSe]

As far as the length of time it takes to fix the vehicle. The flat rate system is the way the automotive industry runs. It promotes productivity, but it also allows for technicians to upgrade skills and tools and recieve something back for their time an effort.

I have a mechanic in my shop that has invested over $100,000 in tools and a tool box. All of that was invested so he could fix cars faster, and move on to the next one and make more money. Just as there are days that he can make 15 hours in an 8 hour shift, there are also days that he only makes 4 hours in an 8 hour shift.

Exactly. My mechanic refers to those are units. It's indeed a standard. Mitchell OnDemand is a piece of software they they (and I) use to troubleshoot problems, list parts and diagrams for most makes and models of vehicles. There's an add-in that will give you the units per job. It's true, it does promote productivity and efficiency; the harder you work and the more you know, the more money you can make. Otherwise they could take all day on an oil change and make 8hrs worth of pay. It would be one way to try to eliminate those shops/mechanics that milk the jobs to get more money. You could say that mechanics could rush jobs too, but not good if they get caught, and there's always someone who could take advantage of any system, to take advantage of per-hour and per-job work regardless.

My cousin opened his shop for exactly that reason. The newer guys were getting the easy jobs and he was getting all the harder ones because of his seniority and experience, but wasn't fair for him. In the end he was getting less pay on his cheques than them. He complained, it didn't change, and had been running his own shop for several years now.

One of my exs is a mechanic. She's currently pulling the motor out of a Pilot that's shot from poor maintenance (3000kms left ont he warranty). Pics, lol:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak- ... 984_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak- ... 1993_n.jpg
The job is quoted 15 hours to pull the motor, rebuild it and put it back it. Took her 8 just to pull the motor...first time she's done it. Good job for experience, but poor for pay, and she's got a little one to feed to.

[studum]

I tried to get them to put the car down so I could do it in the parking lot myself and they said they can't allow work to be done in the parking lot.

Instead of asking maybe just do it...tell them to get it down...do the work and safetied later (or that day if you could leave it). I've been between the rock and hard place so I know sometimes you just can't do it.

I tried that route too, but due to the hour and how long they were going to remain open that day, and the lineup of other vehicles to service if I had taken my car out it wouldn't have gotten back in that night for the re-inspection after the repair. I needed the safety that night, they knew it and weren't doing anything to help me out.

If I had known that the bushing was bad I would have done it myself before but I didn't. I wasn't making any noise or anything. Oh well, it's water under the bridge for me.

To me it's not about whether a mechanic is charging what they're able to for the job, it's about them being honest about the job. It's the honest mechanic that gets my regular business. Unfortunately he closes at 5 during the week...

[Fyrtowr]

I'm interested to see where this goes.....