Titan Swap Anyone?

[FrontyFlyer]

Alright, Im a noob here and i may be outa line asking for help right away, but if i can get this done i think some of us may benefit from it and I'm willing to share all my secrets and advise should they want to try this.

Im sure everyone with the 2nd gen knows they can swap out Titan arms and have a 6" wider track and 3-4" more travel, and much beefier arms. But Im sure you also know what a PITA getting extended axle shafts from PRG is ($500+ just for the shaft, no cv's, and there out of stock right now)

I think this is dooable for much MUCH cheaper, infact I have gathered most of the parts and a second set of CV's I can experiment with for about $500:




The problem is finding the ext. length. the CVs axles travel up and down with the susp, as well as stretch in/out due to the angle they are on. In order to find this length i came up with the bright idea of hacking a spare shaft in half, and installing one half to the hub and the other to diff. With the Titan arms on, and springs off, I can easily study the movement of the suspension and find a comfortable length bar so the cv's aren't over stretched/ squished during susp movement.

I've got next week off to do this, i will post pics of my progress (if i make any). Feel free to chime in with any suggestions

[Bow_Tied]

Neat idea.

Would you be able to torque the axle nut properly on half a shaft?

I presume you'd have to have a quality machine shop weld in your extension piece to ensure perfect concentricity to both halves of the shaft. To do this I would recommend have the extension piece be a larger diameter and have the ends of the extension piece drilled precisely and tightly to match the shaft diameter, tap fit. Then it could be welded. The challenge there would be welding without distortion.

A crazy idea here: Have one half of the shaft machined with splines and weld a splined hub to the other half creating a middle slip joint to avoid the above problem. It would of course require a boot. The problem there may be that the shaft is too small for a sufficient number of splines.

A combo of the two ideas wouldn't be cheap but might be most robust and true.

[Miner]

Or swap in the stronger diff from a Titan / Armada / Pathfinder V8 and use the Titan / Armada shafts

[Bow_Tied]

^ Don't go confusing the issue with facts and common sense!!

[FrontyFlyer]

Last time I took that nut off wasnt so bad, took a 31mm socket 3/4 drive, 3ft torque wrench with a cheaty bar...

I'd like to try and stay away from welding extension or sleeving them. Like you said the diameter may not be big enough to spline/sleeve and its probably hassles and $$$ to have them balaced. There may even be some clearance issues with the springs if the sleeve is to big. I wont do it unless I absolutely have to.

My best case senerio is that theres already an existing axle with a similar length / spline count Im looking for. I thought this was far fetched, but i went to a local 4x4 shop (http://www.staangsfab.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and they seem to be pretty confident they can find me an axle. They said worst case, I have custom axles cut to length/splined for $250

I wish i could put that beastly M205 Titan diff up front, but i cant get the right gears. Im running 3.692's the closest i can find is 3.2.. somthing

[FrontyFlyer]

I like the crazy ideas.. keep em' comin!

[Miner]

Swap the rear diff from the titan too...will match the new gearing and width in the front. Unfortunately all of the titan axle / gearing options are higher then your current gearing....


....but there may be another option. The V8 Pathfinders came with the Titan's front diff, I'm not sure if they re-geared the front diff to match the Pathfinder rear or re-geared the rear / replaced with an Armada piece. If they re-geared the front to match the rear it should match up to the Frontier's gearing. Unfortunately the V8 Pathfinders are rare so parts are available but scrap yard parts would be scarce.

[JAS]

I have often wondered if it would be possible to switch over to something like an F-150 drive train. It would be a lot of research and fab work, but it would open up the aftermarket possibilities and replacement parts are everywhere and cheap.
Off the top of my head, I am thinking fitting in a front diff, fabbing up mounts and control arms (upper and lower), using their axles, spindles, and wheels. The rear end would have to match up and prop shafts would also need to be considered. Sounds like a lot of work vs. staying with Nissan so I am not sure if having access to ARB lockers, many gearing options, and access to cheap replacement parts would justify the project – now back to regularly scheduled daydreaming.

[Nd4SpdSe]

At that point, wouldn't it be better just to do a SAS?

[FrontyFlyer]

Ultimately, I want to run titan diffs front and back. I would have done this already if it wasn't for the lack of gear options out there the biggest gears i can get from a titan diff is 3.36 (pro 4 package). The V8 pathys use the same gears as the titan (it was only the 6speed nismo's that had the 3.69's w locker Theres a company 'in progress' of releasing ring/pinions (http://ruggedrocksoffroad.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) but the release date says 2020!!??

For right now I've got my work set out for me and My diffs are fairly new, I blew the rear one up just over 100k km's and the front not long after (Replaced under warranty) So i mine as well blow it up agian first! Hopefully by than gears will be available for M205 and i can run 4.10's and 35"s until than i will keep dreaming.

As for the interracial, kinky idea of swapping in a ford axle.... I like! The guys at staangs fab were convinced they could pop in a solid axle up front from a jeep, but i wasnt to convinced of the price... And I'll admit, welding up the mounts and control arms is a bit beyond my reach.

Heres a comparison of the titan/frontier diffs. You can see the titan is 6" wider and has a flange that is causing me all this grief!!

[JAS]

I agree that SAS is the way to go for off-road capabilities. Staying as IFS is only something that has crossed my mind and I do like a few features of it for a rock solid DD with greatly improved off road reliability over stock 2nd gen setup. With the IFS the steering system would be more native to the vehicle, possibly staying stock with only an extended linkage, other considerations include sprung vs. unsprung weight, comfort and handling, simplified front prop shaft (over SAS), and the control arm and coil bucket mounting is already there. I am not sure how ABS would match up – like I say – a lot of research would be required.

It’s a lot of work either way (upgrade IFS vs. SAS) each with their own challenges, but I see some positives in the IFS setup, and find it intriguing.

[PiDGE]

Is the diff 6" wider? I dont think so. Titan arms and shafts are 3" longer per side, but I'm sure the diff aint. Anyone???

Edit: Well the rear is wider. Is that what you mean maybe??? Leaf mounts on Titan axle are different to. Shackles are on the outside as ours are under the frame. Buy a titan and swap bodies, done

[Nismojunky]

buy a titan?

[FrontyFlyer]

I think for now, staying IFS is the best overall option for me. The Titan swap has been done by many X's and fronty's and proven off road. I'm aiming for more of a prerunner approach than rock crawling mud monster. The articulation and durability of a SAS would be nice, but at higher speed stability the independent will out perform the SAS( i think). In terms of parts availability, cost, and work, the Titan arms is the best option for a broke ass like me.

From what I've read on clubfrontier, the titan and frontier shafts are the same length. I cant verify this, but it sorta makes sense; pathfinders have a shorter half shaft and use frontier arms with titan diff, the titan diff must be longer... If the titan shafts are longer there may be some hope of combining titan half shafts on my CV's

[Bow_Tied]

I think the type of wheeling the bulk of the members here do is suited to IFS provided one is willing to accept increased mainteance intervals on those components. The bigger tires I suspect are harder on the front end parts for not only the extra mass, but it allows the truck to do more difficult terrain. I agree that a SA up front is the ideal, but for a daily driver the IFS will likely give a nicer ride. I think it also makes a difference if the SA was OEM or user installed; it has to be hard to get it just right for ride and handling quality vs. the factory. The perfect scenario would have been an X with a SA from the factory (and a V8 that got 30mpg, lol).

[FrontyFlyer]

Update: Slowly coming together... Spent most of the day cutting the axle in half (NOT FUN) took 3 grinder discs and lots of cuss words. I gave up after difficulty with the lower arm, camber bolts wont come out i got the nut off but the bolt wont budge. I even tried to push it out with an impact chisel... I got it marinating PB blaster, hopefully it will give tomorrow.

[Nd4SpdSe]

I think the type of wheeling the bulk of the members here do is suited to IFS provided one is willing to accept increased mainteance intervals on those components.

Although there are some hardcore factory vehicles with SAS systems, there are some hardcore IFS vehicles too, like the H1 Hummer, the modified Hilux used to drive Top Gear to the North Pole are 2 that come off the top of my head.

[nige]

Although there are some hardcore factory vehicles with SAS systems, there are some hardcore IFS vehicles too, like the H1 Hummer, the modified Hilux used to drive Top Gear to the North Pole are 2 that come off the top of my head.

don't forget this years winner of King of the Hammers!

[Nd4SpdSe]

don't forget this years winner of King of the Hammers!

Didn't even know about that, that is just awesome to watch!
Perfect example: 1:20 vs 6:03
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWcuGt5iefg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(Looks like he's running MTR's too, lol!)

[FrontyFlyer]

those are some serious riggs... Good to see some IFS's keeping up (if not out maneuvering the SA's) good find