Fingers Still Crossed for Titan Diesel

[Morpheus]

All the Titan xd's that are on the road NOW as demo units are all prototype units. They are all destined for the crusher shortly, so it doesn't surprise me that there are some shortfalls on fit and finish.

The new ones just started rolling off the assembly line, and should be here in a month or so...

[Scotto]

I found Miner's comments all really cool when it came to gross weight and curb weight. A couple years back when I had three teen boys, myself and Jennifer in the truck for a week of camping,plus a trailer full of gear, I did the math and found I had 25 pounds to spare. That's not a lot of room.

Testament to Nissan. The X was fine. Pulled us through logging roads and got us there. And back.


Sent from my iThingy.

[Miner]

All the Titan xd's that are on the road NOW as demo units are all prototype units. They are all destined for the crusher shortly, so it doesn't surprise me that there are some shortfalls on fit and finish.

The new ones just started rolling off the assembly line, and should be here in a month or so...

The fit was impressive for the 2nd hand built truck. Hopefully the "miss-mash" of switch and interior piece finishes is from building the prototypes from the parts bin and the Job One trucks will be corrected. Wire harnesses were clearly hand built ... poorly ... that will be fixed in production. Paint should also be fixed in production, though I'd take a very close look at the finish of the first production trucks.

[Miner]

From the dealer:

As of today here is the information that we know:

-The maximum payload on the SV Premium Package will be 1,838 lbs (834kgs).

-We are not guaranteed an SV with Premium Package upon initial shipment of the trucks. However if you know that you want one and were willing to put a deposit there is a much better chance we would get one because we can report that we have sold one of that trim level and therefore will be much more likely to get one in that trim level.

-the SV Premium Package will be an open differential 3.92 gear ratio

-The SV will weigh less than the Platinum Reserve we had in the showroom, less equipment equals a lighter truck and higher payload

-Front hubs are auto locking

-the fuel tank is 118 litres or 26 gallons

-because this is a complete redesign the window from the old Titan will not be in the 2016. The window that was in the Platinum Reserve is the new window

-as far as we know now the electronic locking tailgate and remote start will not be available in the SV premium package

-In terms of pricing we have no current information. We are hoping just as much as everyone else to get that in the next week or two.

So based on that we've gone from considering the SV with the Premium Package to the Pro-4x. Unfortunately the maximum payload on the Pro-4x is only 1,733 lbs, I had wanted over 1,800 lbs from this truck.

[Miner]

Production marketing as finally come out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgHZP0kAWak



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii6Hry6NSyo



https://youtu.be/jRZezDhJ1b4

[Bow_Tied]

Josh, are you expecting to run that close to the line that 100-200lb payload will make a difference? Just curious, I am sure you have good reason.

[Miner]

Unfortunately yes. I've recently discovered that the maximum towing capacity numbers now have allowances for optional equipment (0 lbs or 100 lbs) and passenger weight (300 lbs), however the payload sticker does not. Previously I had assumed 150 lbs driver was included in the payload sticker as it was included in the old towing capacity number. Our passenger load alone exceeds the allowance in the maximum towing capacity so payload is generally our limiting factor. As such tongue weight, passenger weight, accessory weight, and cargo must be under the maximum payload specified on the Tire and Load information sticker.

Going Camping:

• Passengers - 200 lbs + 150 lbs + 150 lbs + 100 lbs + 100 lbs = 700 lbs
  Tongue Weight - 800 lbs
  Accessories - ~60 lbs
  Gear - ~100 lbs
  Bikes - ~100 lbs
  Firewood - ~50 lbs
  Total - ~1,810 lbs

Therefore ~1,810 lbs with our current trailer and no 'extras' (bags, coolers, dogs...) in the truck, or ~1,710 lbs if the bikes stay at home or ride in the trailer. This does not include full recovery gear, or the four-wheeler, which we would like to be able to bring on certain trips. The SV Premium was my choice to maximize payload, which would be under 1,838 lbs due to the addition of the Premium package option. However with an open rear differential I'm not interested. The Pro-4x offers 1,733 lbs, includes the e-locker and all the options available on the XD that I wanted...well no heated steering wheel or locking tailgate.

1,733 lbs maximum vs ~1,710 required, 100-200 lbs does makes a difference, there's no margin and no room to eventually upgrade to a larger (heavier) trailer. I would be much happier with a 20% margin, that puts payload at 2138-2263 lbs and that's firmly in 3/4-ton territory. With no bikes and no firewood a 3/4 ton could handle the four-wheeler as well. However a 3/4 ton is a lot of truck for the ~80% of my driving that's done without a trailer.

Basically with margin 100-200 lbs doesn't make a big difference without margin it;'s the difference in being legal or not.

The decision we have to make:

• F-150 XLT Sport 302A 3.5 Ecoboost, 1,710 lbs payload - Just enough payload (if mods are kept to a minimum), good daily driver, lowest purchase price, known resale value
• Titan XD Pro-4x Cummins 5.0, 1,733 lbs payload - Just enough payload (already includes 'heavy' LT tires), solid towing platform, decent daily driver, unknown purchase price, unknown resale value
• Ram 2500 SLT Cummins 6.7, 2,000-2,300 lbs payload - Payload margin (few mods needed/wanted), solid towing platform, questionable daily driver, highest purchase price, strong resale value

Right now I'd say the Ram 2500 is the safe choice for us, but it's a lot of truck to pay for. We like the Titan, we like being different and owning a Nissan truck. Until pricing is released and I can drive an XD we remain on the fence.


Info - SAE Towing http://www.caranddriver.com/features/th ... -tech-dept
Info - Tire and Load http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_ ... aytl2e.pdf

[Bow_Tied]

You have it well thought through as I knew you would. I agree that for the towing/gear you'd like to consider the Ram is the more solid choice. But I also recognize the heartache of paying for all that upfront and for daily use. Went through the same issues at a smaller scale all around.

If the Ram costs more, perhaps the difference instead being spent on the Ram itself would be better spent on a trailer upgrade that will reduce weight?

[Miner]

Total cost is the second factor after capability. I have a calculator running payments, interest, depreciation (trade value), fuel cost, maintenance cost, km driving, km towing, etc to determine total ownership cost and cost per km. That's with forecasts for future fuel prices and indexed to inflation. I've been working on it on and off for quite a while.

The result of all my calculating is that with discounts and discount financing the total cost of the RAM 2500 Cummins can be lower than Ford F-150. Approximately $0.04/km over 5 years. However that's only when RAM does the No Charge Cummins incentive, which is $9345 off. I'm waiting for numbers on the Titan and even when I get them resale will be a best guess. In the end it will be a judgment call.

Side bar - Yes I've analysed this to the point that buying a truck isn't fun anymore.

[Drizit]

Side bar - Yes I've analysed this to the point that buying a truck isn't fun anymore.

Was going to say... This is a lot of number crunching... You must really like doing that kind of thing.

[Miner]

Yeah, I do.

It started out as an exercise to evaluate HD diesel vs HD gas trucks, to determine which had the lower total cost of ownership with varying annual mileage and fuel price projections. It grew, a lot, from there.

[Adam]

Side bar - Yes I've analysed this to the point that buying a truck isn't fun anymore.

I was going to say something, but then again when you're going to spend 50 grand+, you probably do want to do your homework.

[Bow_Tied]

I can relate. I started a spreadsheet once to asses best aftermarket transmission for my Chevelle. Now it's a full blown calculator for wheel size, gearing, and speed that's widely used in the Chevelle community.

And I never did upgrade the trans. Lol




-Ron

[Miner]

And I never did upgrade the trans. Lol

-Ron

I'm still driving an '05 Titan.

[Drizit]

I can relate. I started a spreadsheet once to asses best aftermarket transmission for my Chevelle. Now it's a full blown calculator for wheel size, gearing, and speed that's widely used in the Chevelle community.

And I never did upgrade the trans. Lol




-Ron

Kind of like this?
http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html

[Bow_Tied]

I can relate. I started a spreadsheet once to asses best aftermarket transmission for my Chevelle. Now it's a full blown calculator for wheel size, gearing, and speed that's widely used in the Chevelle community.

And I never did upgrade the trans. Lol




-Ron

Kind of like this?
http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html

Yes exactly, except for muscle cars. Library of transmissions. Axle ratios, clutch/torque converter slippage, tires. In this case it's intent was to let people see what the cruising rpms would be for a change to an overdrive trans which was uncommon in the 60s. Also a shift rpm could roughly graph speed in each gear.

I was always going to add a version for tcase 4lo ratios but never made the time.

The link you posted appears very well done for the offroad crowd.


-Ron

[Miner]

US pricing and "proper" configuration tool released.
CDN pricing isn't.

Loaded SV ~$53,000 - Pro-4x ~$54,000 USD MSRP, a RAM 2500 Cummins comparably equipped is ~$53,500 - ~$55,000 USD MSRP. In Canada the RAM 2500 is discounted by ~$6,000, end of year was ~$13,000. If Nissan wants potential buyer not to go to 3/4 ton trucks they will need to be aggressive with the incentives.

http://www.nissanusa.com/buildyournissan/variant/index

Note - there's some errors in the configuration tool, for instance the bed length is listed as 5'7".

[Miner]

Canadian pricing - posted to me by Nissan in my comment on there "still no price" video.

http://nissannews.com/en-CA/nissan/cana ... 6-titan-xd

Nissan Announces Canadian Pricing For 2016 TITAN XD

Mississauga, Ont. – Just in time for last-minute holiday adventures, the all-new 2016 Nissan TITAN XD Crew Cab goes on sale tomorrow at Nissan dealers nationwide. Available in five grade levels, the Cummins® 5.0L V8 Turbo Diesel-equipped TITAN XD has a Canadian starting Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price* (MSRP) of $52,400 for the S The top-of-the-line Platinum Reserve grade has an MSRP of $73,900.

"This is a big day for Nissan, our retailers and our customers –– as our new 'Titan of Trucks' the Nissan TITAN XD powers into showrooms across the country," said Steve Rhind director of marketing, Nissan Canada Inc. "TITAN XD takes the tradition of full-size capacity to a whole new level, with standard 555 lb-ft of torque, a long list of innovative towing aids such as Around View® Monitor and integrated gooseneck trailer hitch, and advanced safety and security features. There's never been a TITAN like this and the diesel-powered TITAN XD Crew Cab is only the beginning."

Following the launch of the 2016 TITAN XD Crew Cab, the new TITAN lineup will be offered in three cab configurations, two frame sizes, three powertrain offerings and five grade levels. More information on the full lineup will be available at a later date.

Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Prices (MSRP) for the 2016 Nissan TITAN XD Crew Cab:

TITAN XD S Crew Cab 4x4 $52,400 CAD
TITAN XD SV Crew Cab 4x4 $56,300 CAD
TITAN XD SV Premium Crew Cab 4x4 $63,050 CAD
TITAN XD PRO-4X Crew Cab 4x4 $63,950 CAD
TITAN XD PRO-4X Luxury Crew Cab 4x4 $71,700 CAD
TITAN XD SL Crew Cab 4x4 $70,250 CAD
TITAN XD Platinum Reserve Crew Cab 4x4 $73,900 CAD
Note: All models are equipped with a Cummins® 5.0L V8 Turbo Diesel and 6-speed automatic transmission
Destination and handling $1,730

About the 2016 Nissan TITAN XD
The all-new 2016 Nissan TITAN XD full-size pickup has been named one of three finalists for the 2016 North American Truck/Utility of the Year (NATOY) and was recently named "Truck of Texas" by the Texas Auto Writers Association (TAWA) in their annual 2015 Texas Truck Rodeo, which puts the industry's best trucks, SUVs and CUVs through a grueling two-day evaluation at the historic Knibbe Ranch in Spring Branch, Texas. In addition to the competition's top award, Truck of Texas, the new TITAN XD won three other honours – Luxury Pickup Truck of Texas, Off-Road Pickup Truck of Texas and Best Powertrain for its available Cummins® 5.0L V8 Turbo Diesel engine.

The TITAN XD's long list of innovative available technologies include an Integrated Trailer Brake Controller, Trailer Sway Control (TSC), Tow/Haul Mode with Downhill Speed Control and a Trailer Light Check system that allows one-person hook-up operation – including checking turn signals, brake lights and running/clearance lights. Assisting trailer hook-ups is a RearView Monitor with Trailer Guides. TITAN XD also offers an available Around View® Monitor (AVM), which provides a unique "bird's eye" view of the surrounding area to help with parking and pulling in and out of tight spaces. The system includes Moving Object Detection (MOD). Two trailer hitches are available, including an integrated gooseneck hitch engineered into the frame and easily accessible in the bed.

The TITAN XD is offered in five grade levels: S, SV, SL, Platinum Reserve and the sporty PRO-4X grade with standard off-road features such as 18-inch aluminum-alloy wheels with all-terrain off-road tires, Bilstein off-road shock absorbers, electronic locking rear differential and skid plates. The TITAN XD Platinum Reserve grade features premium leather-appointed heated seating, dark chrome exterior trim, two-tone paint treatment, leather-wrapped steering wheel with wood insert, 20-inch dark chrome aluminum-alloy wheels and much more.

# # #

About Nissan North America
In North America, Nissan's operations include automotive styling, engineering, consumer and corporate financing, sales and marketing, distribution and manufacturing. Nissan is dedicated to improving the environment under the Nissan Green Program and has been recognized annually by the U.S Environmental Protection Agency as an ENERGY STAR® Partner of the Year since 2010. More information on Nissan in North America and the complete line of Nissan and Infiniti vehicles can be found online at www.NissanUSA.com and www.InfinitiUSA.com, or visit the U.S. media sites NissanNews.com and InfinitiNews.com.

About Nissan Motor Co.
Nissan Motor Co., Ltd., Japan's second-largest automotive company, is headquartered in Yokohama, Japan, and is part of the Renault-Nissan Alliance. Operating with more than 247,500 employees globally, Nissan sold 5.32 million vehicles and generated revenue of 11.38 trillion yen (CAD 103.6 billion) in fiscal year 2014. Nissan delivers a comprehensive range of more than 60 models under the Nissan, Infiniti and Datsun brands. Nissan leads the world in zero-emission mobility, dominated by sales of the LEAF, the first mass-market, pure-electric vehicle. It is the best-selling EV in history with almost 50% share of the zero-emission vehicle segment. For more information on our products, services and commitment to sustainable mobility, visit our website at http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/.

About Nissan Canada Inc.
Nissan Canada Inc. (NCI) is the Canadian sales, marketing and distribution subsidiary of Nissan Motor Limited and Nissan North America, Inc. NCI directly employs 306 full-time staff across offices in Vancouver (BC), Mississauga (ON), and Kirkland (QC). There are 190 independent Nissan dealerships, 39 Infiniti retailers and 45 Nissan Commercial Vehicle dealers across Canada. A pioneer in zero emission mobility, Nissan made history with the introduction of the Nissan LEAF, the first affordable, mass-market, pure-electric vehicle and winner of numerous international accolades including the prestigious 2011 European Car of the Year and World Car of the Year awards.

More information about Nissan in Canada and the complete line of Nissan and Infiniti vehicles can be found online at www.nissan.ca and www.infiniti.ca.

* MSRP excludes applicable tax, title, license fees and destination charges. Dealer sets actual price. Prices and specs are subject to change without notice. Destination and handling $1,730.

[Miner]

So TITAN XD PRO-4X Crew Cab 4x4 MSRP $63,950 CAD is right between the comparable half-ton (gas) MSRP $57,000 and 3/4-ton (diesel) MSRP $73,000. MSRP is where it should be, however the domestics offer large incentives and reduced financing. In the past so has Nissan, it could be a contender.

[Nd4SpdSe]