Fingers Still Crossed for Titan Diesel

[Miner]

And how will it compare to a ram 1500 diesel both in price and specs. So far everyone I know who bought one loves it.

Aside from my comments about payload, I don't think these two will directly compete with each other. The RAM 1500 Ecodiesel is built to be the most fuel efficient full sized pickup on the market. The Titan XD concept is to be as capable as a 3/4 ton truck from 10 years ago, evidently sacrificing weight and fuel economy to do it. I think the comparison must be made to equally equipped 3/4 ton diesel trucks. It needs to cost less, be more comfortable, and use less fuel while still being capable enough for the application.

[Miner]

http://www.titanxdforum.com/forum/177-2 ... #post83817

We Have Titan XD Tow Ratings!


Check out this little surprise we found this morning in the Nissan News Room! Nissan has made the full press kit for the Titan XD available, media outlets are still gagged by the embargo, but we're not...

SV, P4X, and SL offer the integrated gooseneck option, the Platinum Reserve (PR) includes it standard. All trims except S include a Trailer Sway Controller.

P4X and SL offer a Trailer Brake Controller as an option, PR standard.

P4X, SL and PR will come with the Tow Package built in, S and SL must option.

One cool feature is the ability to check your trailer lights from your key fob. Optional on all trims except S, standard on PR. Same story for split tow mirrors.

On to the specs!

Tow Capacities by Trim:

Maximum towing capacity – Trailer (lbs)

S: 12,314 (4x2), 12,038 (4x4)
SV: 12,164 (4x2), 11,888 (4x4)
P4X: 11,784 (4x4)
SL: 11,915 (4x2), 11,638 (4x4)
PR: 11,836 (4x2) 10,608 (4x4)

Maximum towing capacity – Tongue (lbs)

S: 1,231 (4x2), 1,204 (4x4)
SV: 1,216 (4x2), 1,189 (4x4)
P4X: 1,178 (4x4)
SL: 1,191 (4x2), 1,164 (4x4)
PR: 1,184 (4x2) 1,061 (4x4)

Weights by Trim:

Curb Weight (lbs)

S: 6,709 (4x2), 6,986 (4x4)
SV: 6,876 (4x2), 7,152 (4x4)
P4X: 7,257 (4x4)
SL: 7,126 (4x2), 7,402 (4x4)
PR: 7,204 (4x2) 7,480 (4x4)

GVWR (lbs)

S: 8,800 (4x2), 8,990 (4x4)
SV: 8,800 (4x2), 8,990 (4x4)
P4X: 8,990 (4x4)
SL: 8,800 (4x2), 8,990 (4x4)
PR: 8,880 (4x2), 8,950 (4x4)

[Drizit]

Am I reading that wrong or is that putting it at about the same payload as the ram? I ask because I don't fully understand this stuff but would like to.

[Miner]

Take the GVWR less the Curb Weight and you have payload.

Payload (Crew Cab 6.5' box 4x4):

S: 2,004 lbs
SV: 1,838 lbs
P4X: 1,733 lbs
SL: 1,588 lbs
PR: 1,470 lbs

Looking at the same configuration in an F-150 (without the HD payload or Max Tow packages) is a 7,050 GVWR with a payload of just over 1,700 lbs....about the same as the XD. The Ram is 400-500 lbs lower, and like the Titan XD payload drops with the additional weight of options and trim packages.

Honestly the payload numbers are very disappointing. The GVWR is no surprise, however the curb weight is surprising and its hurting the truck overall.

For us these specs have knocked the Titan XD SL off our option list, and likely the P4X with the Luxury package (added weight) as well. We are now shopping the F-150 XLT XTR Ecoboost (1,700 lbs) vs. Titan XD SV Premium Cummins (1,838 lbs) vs. Ram 2500HD SLT Comfort Cummins (2,380 lbs). The Titan XD will need to come in around $60,000 out the door and offer fuel economy at least equal to the Ram 2500HD to continue to be considered.

[Miner]

I'll personally see one for the first time at Kingston Nissan on the 19th (Thursday), hopefully the Nissan people on site will have enough product knowledge and the specifications to answer my questions.

Spent my lunch with the dealer...no Titan. Now they say they'll have one for five days starting next Tuesday.

[Nd4SpdSe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z62wyWRQFnE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4nfvHV6rJ0

[Morpheus]

According to my training, just simply driving the truck isn't as fuel efficient as working the truck... Ie: put a moderate load on it, and the fuel economy gets better.

Don't know if I buy the koolade, but diesels are out of my realm.

[Miner]

I'll go in and see it today...if its actually there...I'll cautiously sip the koolade.

Unfortunately I can't see the 310 hp 5.0L Cummins hauling around a ~7,200 lbs (empty) Nissan returning better mileage than a 370 hp 6.7L Cummins motivating ~7,500 lbs of Ram. The extra 60 hp and 245 ft.lbs should more than offset the extra ~300 lbs. I think Nissan is learning the same lesson Ford did with the last generation of the F-150, the final vehicle weight is as important (perhaps more important) than any other feature or spec. You can't just throw heavy duty parts and options on a truck and expect a capable package when you're done.

[Drizit]

What you have to engineer and plan things from the start with a specific goal in mind? Sacrilege, you should be ashamed.

[Miner]

Well it finally arrived, I think two days late...not sure the dealer didn't call me as they assured me they would. Honestly not impressed with the sales staff at this dealer. I'll go see it tonight, hopefully make a final decision on 5.0L vs 6.7L or wait for a gasser half-ton.

[the x kid]

Dodges look cool.

[Miner]

Dodges look cool.

No Dodge trucks anymore, a Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FTA) North America truck is a RAM.

[Miner]

I've now seen a pre-production Titan XD twice. The dealer has the training truck, supposedly the 2nd Titan XD made, its nice but definitely not a production unit.

Impression upon seeing it in person - Good size, good height, decent lines, proportions are okay except for the overly long hood. The body sits on the frame, not a body lift like some of the test mule pictures, and the frame is much more substantial than the current Titan .

The interior - The seats are excellent, better than or Volvos . The ceiling lacks the storage, maps lights, rear radio etc of my Titan. The large rear slider is replaced by a tiny standard unit . No sunroof for 2016 as the supplier couldn't supply a unit "good enough" for Nissan. The switches appear to have been stolen from the parts bin, some are glossy black, others flat black, many flat grey...probably six different combinations . The gauges look like a premium display from a 6-8 years ago, slightly better than a current low-mid trim truck but not comparable to the current premium gauges offered by Ford or Ram . The radio/nav unit is smaller than the premium units in the other trucks and not as well integrated with the dash. Generally the dash, radio, switchgear, and gauges look pieced together not integrated like current trucks or my decade old Titan .

The motor - unfortunately this truck isn't to be driven. However we did start it, the glow plugs are automatic and it sounds like a proper modern diesel. Smoother than a 6.7 Cummins, more volume than a 6.7 Powerstoke, and not rough like the 3.0 Ecodiesel

Suspension - the front suspension appears "heavier" than the current Titan with a much shorter distance between the upper and lower a-arms, I feel this with limit travel . The rear supension is a traditional leaf spring with heavier shackles and frame mounts (much heavier) than the failure prone units on the current Titans.

The deal breaker - The tire load information sticker that displays the true payload of the truck...1,323 lbs That's 150 lbs less than what Nissan specified for a Platinum Reserve. 1,323 lbs is in the ball park of the current Titan, 400 lbs less than the current F-150, and ~1,000 lbs less than a 3/4 ton diesel. Hopefully the production trucks are at least a couple hundred pounds lighting or Nissan has wasted their time with the XD .

Other notes - The paint is terrible, under the hood and inside the doors is only primer, and the body is 100% orange peel. Its a pre-production truck so that shouldn't be the case with the production units. Honestly the only automotive paint jobs I've seen worse than this one were done by high school shops or with rattle cans.

Bottom line, I need to know what the production trucks payload stickers say. If they match the specs provide by Nissan the XD is an "in between" truck that should suit some buyers and in a lower trim (SV) should fill our needs. If they're 150 lbs below the specs, like this example, I strongly suggest that no one who intends to tow buy a Titan XD, at least not a diesel crew-cab.

[Bow_Tied]

Sounds like it might take a year or two more to get this rig competitive?

[Miner]

Sounds like it might take a year or two more to get this rig competitive?

I don't think that how Nissan works. From what I saw over the years with the last Titan the longer it was on the market the more content was removed, and when something was added it was parts bin stuff (not integrated). However there were quite a few positive changes going from 04 (first year) to 05, and some fixes in 08.5. After that it went down hill.

[Miner]

http://www.nissan.ca/en/trucks/2016-tit ... nt.button1

Updated Spec Sheet

Added

2016 TITAN® XD DIESEL DIMENSIONS/CAPACITIES/WEIGHTS/FUEL
Dimensions ‐ Inches (mm) S SV PRO‐4X® SL PLATINUM RESERVE
Exterior
Wheelbase 151.6 (3850) 151.6 (3850) 151.6 (3850) 151.6 (3850) 151.6 (3850)
Overall length 243.0 (6173) 243.0 (6173) 243.6 (6187) 243.0 (6173) 243.0 (6173)
Overall width 75.5 (2019) 75.5 (2019) 80.7 (2049) 75.5 (2019) 75.5 (2019)
Overall height 77.9 (1978) 77.9 (1978) 78.3 (1988) 78.7 (1999) 78.7 (1999)
Bed length 67.0 (1701) 67.0 (1701) 67.0 (1701) 67.0 (1701) 67.0 (1701)
Bed width 61.7 (1567) 61.7 (1567) 61.7 (1567) 61.7 (1567) 61.7 (1567)
Bed depth 20.8 (528) 20.8 (528) 20.8 (528) 20.8 (528) 20.8 (528)
Vehicle clearance
Minimum ground clearance at rear axle 8.7" (220.5 mm) 8.7" (220.5 mm) 9.0" (229.5 mm) 9.5" (240.5 mm) 9.5" (240.5 mm)
Minimum ground clearance with skid plates 8.1" (204.5 mm) 8.1" (204.5 mm) 8.9" (227.1 mm) 9.0" (229.3 mm) 9.0" (229.3 mm)
Angle of approach with skid plate 15.6o 15.6o 21.0o 17.6o 17.6o
Angle of departure 27.5o 23.6o 23.9o 24.5o 24.5o
Break‐over angle 19.5o 19.5o 20.1o 20.9o 20.9o
Interior ‐ (front/rear)
Head room 41.0 (1041)/40.4 (1026) 41.0 (1041)/40.4 (1026) 41.0 (1041)/40.4 (1026) 41.0 (1041)/40.4 (1026) 41.0 (1041)/40.4 (1026)
Leg room 41.8 (1062)/38.5 (978) 41.8 (1062)/38.5 (978) 41.8 (1062)/38.5 (978) 41.8 (1062)/38.5 (978) 41.8 (1062)/38.5 (978)
Hip room 60.8 (1543)/60.3 (1531) 60.8 (1543)/60.3 (1531) 60.8 (1543)/60.3 (1531) 60.8 (1543)/60.3 (1531) 60.8 (1543)/60.3 (1531)
Shoulder room 63.3 (1609)/63.6 (1615) 63.3 (1609)/63.6 (1615) 63.3 (1609)/63.6 (1615) 63.3 (1609)/63.6 (1615) 63.3 (1609)/63.6 (1615)
Capacities S SV PRO‐4X® SL PLATINUM RESERVE
Seating capacity with front bench seat 6 6
Seating capacity with  front captain's chairs 5555
Fuel tank L (Imp. gal) 118 (26) 118 (26) 118 (26) 118 (26) 118 (26)
Maximum Payload ‐ Lbs. (kg) 2004 (909) 1838 (834) 1733 (786) 1588 (720) 1470 (667)
Maximum Towing ‐ Lbs (kg) 12,038 (5460) 11,888 (5392) 11,784 (5345) 11,638 (5279) 10,608 (4812)
2016 Fuel Consumption Estimates S SV PRO‐4X® SL PLATINUM RESERVE
City/highway/combined MPG (L/100 km)
Actual mileage may vary with driving conditions ‐ use for
comparison only.

[Miner]

Pickup Trucks 'dot' com article - No one is overlooking that the weight, and fuel capacity, isn't inline with what this truck should be.

For Whom Does the 2016 Nissan Titan XD Roll?
Posted by Mark Williams | December 1, 2015
TITAN_EventIMG_0297 II

With all the requisite pomp and circumstance, Nissan recently celebrated the first all-new 2016 Nissan Titan XD to roll off the production line in Canton, Miss. Nissan's Jose Munoz, executive vice president of Nissan Motor Co. and chairman of Nissan North America, and Mississippi Gov. Phil Bryant had front-row seats for the Nov. 19 event.

But the big question about the segment-busting XD is whether there is a place for a full-size pickup that sits in between a traditional half-ton and three-quarter-ton pickup. If you swallow the research Nissan is pushing, there are many people who want more than a half-ton can provide without making the trade-offs one has to make when choosing a heavy-duty platform. The problem we see is that when you look at the numbers, it's a much heavier truck with less payload capacity than many half-ton configurations, and it's not strong enough to pull the heavier loads that heavy-duty powertrains can handle.

There's no question that as trailers and toys get bigger, the pickups that tow them will have to change, but up to this point it seems like half-tons have done a pretty good job. We wonder if there are that many people who need to tow or carry heavier loads than most normal-sized half-tons can manage. Or put another way, is there really a need for this "tweener" or is this new pickup an answer to a question that no one in the pickup-buying world is asking?

Take the Ford F-150 as an example. There are several crew-cab and SuperCab F-150 models that offer more payload capacity than the much heavier Titan XD. Yes, the stronger and heavier frame of the XD does offer more than 1,000 pounds of extra gross vehicle weight (ranging between 8,800 and 8,990), but then again the aluminum-bodied F-150 weighs at least 2,000 pounds less (in some configurations even more) than the XD. That means that the Ford's max payload in a four-door crew cab is often much greater than(depending on trim and engine) the bigger and heavier XD.

From our vantage point, the Titan XD, regardless of how capable or well built it is, could turn out to be a niche vehicle player in a segment that has a ton of bandwidth. The most obvious example of this is the previous-generation Honda Ridgeline, which attempted to serve pickup buyers who didn't really want to own a pickup truck. The Titan XD clearly offers strength and traditional truck values but without the unique details of the Ridgeline. The Ridgeline didn't really look like a pickup or drive like a pickup, although it had some nice storage and bed access details that separated it from competitors.

The Titan XD's advantage is that it offers everything everyone else does — premium trim packages, good payload capacity, good towing capacity and a traditional look — but does it with a heavier truck. We'll concede that the 5.0-liter V-8 Cummins engine is a wonderfully unique selling point and could possibly be enough to separate the XD from the field. However, an engine of this size on a chassis this heavy (a crew-cab SL 4x2 we drove weighed more than 7,200 pounds) won't do well in the fuel-economy department. Some estimated reports have the Titan XD hitting the 15/20 mpg city/highway range, but we'll never know for sure. Nissan decided not to submit the Titan XD for EPA certification because it's not required for vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 8,500 pounds. (We wish Nissan had submitted the truck for certification.) Those numbers are not bad, but they're not categorically different from the bigger turbo-diesel choices available from GM (6.6-liter V-8), Ford (6.7-liter V-8) and Ram (6.7-liter inline-six); each of those can tow and haul a lot more than the Titan XD.

Where the Titan XD crushes potential competitors is ride quality. With so much range and configurability available in the half-ton segment, heavy-duty pickups have focused on work-centered buyers, oftentimes fleets that purchase large, stripped versions. These are the brutes of the pickup world, designed to pull and haul loads bigger than they should, and their suspensions feel like it, especially when driving around town with an empty bed. Not so with the Titan XD. Drive the XD empty and you can tell the suspension engineers did an excellent job of balancing ride control and comfort.

The bottom line isn't how well the Titan XD does the same thing that all the other competitors do, or even whether it does any one of those things differently. The issue that concerns us most is whether there are buyers waiting for a truck that doesn't ride as well as any of the half-tons, won't carry as much as any of the other diesel-equipped three-quarter-tons and doesn't offer enough of the technology we're beginning to expect.

One last question: How can Nissan sell a diesel pickup truck that's presumably bought to tow or haul and offer only a 26-gallon fuel tank? The best-case scenario when towing a heavy load is that you'll be filling up every 200 or 300 miles; the worst case is much less than that. That's a lot of stopping over a long haul and one detail that has us thinking maybe Nissan doesn't quite have this new kind of buyer nailed down yet.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2015/12/fo ... -roll.html

[Nd4SpdSe]

Honestly, it doesn't seem to be the truck I was expecting/made out it was going to be. There's just too many compromises. It doesn't really properly fit in between for capacity, and I was expecting much more capacity and much better fuel economy. It seems tougher and more luxurious and that's about it.

[Drizit]

It's got this over most of the half ton market

[Miner]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/1 ... ent-hagan/

The comments are better than the questions and vague marketing answers. One of the comments presents a translation.

Because I’m mean…

“Our plan is not to publish any EPA-like number since there is no EPA standard for vehicles above 8,500 pounds. We don’t want there to be an opportunity for confusion on what we’re releasing and we believe the media will do an excellent job of reporting apples-to-apples fuel economy performance of our new truck.”

Translation: We ran the truck through the standard EPA test cycle (even though we don’t have to put it on the Monroney) and in addition to the horrifying MPG numbers, the computer spontaneously displayed a picture of the Exxon Valdez. We are hoping by not putting the numbers on the spec-sheet or the door tag, this will be less obvious to potential customers, and we can hand-wave away any tests the automotive press runs.

“Q: Are there any plans to reduce XD’s weight in order to increase its towing and payload numbers?

For all of our vehicles, we continuously strive to reduce weight to improve efficiency and increase capability. For Titan XD, our priority was to engineer the toughest, strongest truck but also have excellent efficiency. That’s why we partnered with Cummins who has an excellent reputation for durability and efficiency.”

Translation: Our engineers went a little wild with the steel, tried to cut back later, and failed. We are releasing with a diesel with undisclosed fuel economy first, so when we release the gasoline models later the press has lost interest in the new Titan and the even-worse gasoline economy numbers won’t get as much notice.

“Q: What does Titan XD offer that a RAM EcoDiesel doesn’t?

We feel that the customers for those two trucks are very different. The Titan XD customer is going to be a heavy-use customer who’s looking for very high capability and would frequently tow 9,000-plus pounds.”

… and/or has a smaller penis.

In all seriousness, I appreciate somebody from Nissan showing up to answer questions, but there’s enough press-flack weasel-wording in here, I just couldn’t resist.