CB radio??

[Ozzker]

The Cobra 19's are also "auto-tuning" models that adjust themselves to your antenna length. I confirmed this with an SWR meter on mine and my friends setups!

[dududuckling]

Yeah, I can pick whatever you want as long as you tell me the name and quantity of the items in details so I don't get the wrong order. I have the glowing Cobra 79xtr... I think I should tune the antenna before blow one up as well, hahaha...

[mookie]

The Cobra 19's are also "auto-tuning" models that adjust themselves to your antenna length. I confirmed this with an SWR meter on mine and my friends setups!

Howdy! This is interesting! Are you certain about the auto tuning on the CB? How are you confirming this with the SWR meter? I'se has a Cobra 19 model!

[Rev]

The Cobra 19's are also "auto-tuning" models that adjust themselves to your antenna length. I confirmed this with an SWR meter on mine and my friends setups!

Are you certain of this? As far as I know the only way to tune is to change the length of the antenna. Your radio has nothing to do with it. So you cannot auto-tune your radio.

[AlexJet]

CBs are fine, but for short range (very) and their quality is low. If we want good quality radio, then may be we should look for HAM...???
I know that HAM is licencend and cost more, but you benefit 100x more out of it.

[Rev]

I'd get into HAM if I could find a cheap unit.

[Ozzker]

The Cobra 19's are also "auto-tuning" models that adjust themselves to your antenna length. I confirmed this with an SWR meter on mine and my friends setups!

Are you certain of this? As far as I know the only way to tune is to change the length of the antenna. Your radio has nothing to do with it. So you cannot auto-tune your radio.

Me and my buddy both have them, and from other CB threads, I was told to buy a SWR and tune my radio. So I bought one, pulled up some good instructions online, and got to work, but the meter gave me a very low (0.1) reading for all three channels I tested (1,20,40). I was convinced that I had done something wrong. I was talking to my buddy later that night, and he said that he had read either on the box or the manual that it would "auto tune" itself. I was skeptical. He has a diffrent antenna then I do, so a few days later, we hooked up the SWR to his Corolla. sure enough, we got low readings again (0.1-0.2) for channels 1, 20, and 40. Therefore, they do infact, somehow, appear to tune themselves!

[01R50]

CBs are fine, but for short range (very) and their quality is low. If we want good quality radio, then may be we should look for HAM...???
I know that HAM is licencend and cost more, but you benefit 100x more out of it.

I use CB all the time and it works fine. Quality is great on the CB's for what we use them for. HAM is like x10 more expensive, requires licensing, plus you have to be VERY careful what you say and do with it. There are a lot of HAM-radio operators out there that have nothing better to do than report you for doing something stupid like not properly stating your operating number or swearing over the air.

You generally do not need longer range either. 99% of the time you are going to be talking to someone a few trucks ahead or behind you. Why spend $2000+ on a system that CB can do for like $50-75? Depending on terrain, you are usually good for at least a couple km in hilly terrain. I spoke to some of the guys over CB while on my way home last time. They were 5km+ away and they came in crystal clear. I don't need to talk to someone 100km away, or on the other side of the country, so I don't see the need for HAM in a trail truck. If you do, then pull out the cell phone. At worst if you are in a remote location with no cell phone service and need to speak long range, rent a satellite phone.

I also don't see HAM price difference being worth it just to have higher quality signals. Unless you spend big bucks, you also won't see it coming in better quality wise than CB either. They are just as susceptible to interference as CB units in many cases. And unless you want a huge antenna on the top of your truck (like 6+ feet tall), don't expect to get super long range with it. HAM antennas, even on vehicles are huge. I can see the antenna getting easily damaged on the trail sitting that tall.

HAM is neat, but there are a lot of draw-backs and really not needed for what we do with them. Get a higher quality radio and antenna if you really want longer range or better sound quality.

Cool idea, but I would ask a HAM expert first before spending the money

[Adam]

ill just go pick some money off the money tree and pickup a ham radio after work tomorrow on the way to taking my ham license exam on top of the other 5 exams I have for school

[Sgt_B]

Umm... sorry, Ozker - beg to differ on the Cobra's auto matching capabilities.

Cobra makes no such claim. Here's the manual for the 19 Ultra-III: http://cobra.com/downloads/19ULTIII_MANL.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and here's Cobra's own write-up on why it's so important to get your set up checked: http://cobra.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=support.FAQ#184" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Most decent quality antennas will show a respectable SWR (i.e.- <2) when connected with a high quality COAX and tested in an open area. The antennas have been bench tested, but <2 is not ideal for your radio, and should not be counted on for your installation. Every installation should be tested before being put it into service.

If anyone's still a little foggy on SWR, antenna matching, how to do it, or why it's so important, Firestik has a great tech section on their website (loaded with plenty of dry wit), here: http://www.firestik.com/Tech_Docs.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mookie]

CBs are fine, but for short range (very) and their quality is low. If we want good quality radio, then may be we should look for HAM...???
I know that HAM is licencend and cost more, but you benefit 100x more out of it.

I use CB all the time and it works fine. Quality is great on the CB's for what we use them for. HAM is like x10 more expensive, requires licensing, plus you have to be VERY careful what you say and do with it. There are a lot of HAM-radio operators out there that have nothing better to do than report you for doing something stupid like not properly stating your operating number or swearing over the air.

Hello!
Oh absolutely! CB is fantastic for use on the trail and for trail rides that don't require distance. They suit the purpose fine and are inexpensive. Like you said, it's all that most of us will need. Below I'm just adding my experience with Ham radio so please don't take it as a "what is better" argument. It's all good.

Ham doesn't have to be 10x more expensive. For VHF operation (truck to truck like your cb and hitting the repeater), it will cost you under 300.00. A plain jane 2m radio is under 200.00 and a antenna and feedline is 80.00

Depending on what you want to do with amateur radio, it can get stupid expensive because there is so much you can do with it, plus the various levels of radios. HF (world wide) costs a poop load of money. Do you want to send email, or text messages back and forth, have your gps send out your truck coordinates to other trucks with ham radios so you all know where you are (good for different trail rides and finding the remote campsite everyone is at.)
These are a few of the things you can do - and if you want to, you pay for it in the radio you choose. So, bare bones VHf is relatively inexpensive for what you gain.

You really don't have to be "very" careful in what you are saying. You talk as you would as with a CB, but you have a call sign. Swearing and advertising a business is really all you have to worry about not doing. It's really about being respectful to others on the air. If you're in a small group anyway, you'll most likely be simplex only and you will be talking like you would with CB anyways, just announce your call sign every 30 min. Ham radio is used for public service. It needs to have rules/regulations/.

You generally do not need longer range either. 99% of the time you are going to be talking to someone a few trucks ahead or behind you. Why spend $2000+ on a system that CB can do for like $50-75? Depending on terrain, you are usually good for at least a couple km in hilly terrain. I spoke to some of the guys over CB while on my way home last time. They were 5km+ away and they came in crystal clear. I don't need to talk to someone 100km away, or on the other side of the country, so I don't see the need for HAM in a trail truck. If you do, then pull out the cell phone. At worst if you are in a remote location with no cell phone service and need to speak long range, rent a satellite phone. .

Thing is, if you have longer range, you will use it because you can period. With Ham, even simplex is so much more superior than a CB due to the bandwidth you are using and your equipment. 1/2 a watt to 50 watts for mobile use. You won't be spending 2000.00+. You guys have one of the better linked amateur repeater systems I think in Canada. You can talk from Toronto, all the way up to Minden using linked repeaters. Pretty much all over Ontario. Plus, it's 100% full quieting all the time. Not the hit and miss signal from a CB. Plus, at 1/2 a watt only, you could talk from Adventure weekend main camp to anyone on the trail. Again, it's 300.00 to get into Amateur radio if truck to truck or truck to repeater to truck is all you need. You don't need to talk to someone 100km away, but you could if you were meeting up for convoys on the way to the trail head. Most 4x4 clubs out here all use Amateur radio. CB's just don't cut it due to our terrain and their poor performance. One of the many uses we use it for iis finding each other when we back country camp as we all leave at different times and we don't know our exact location to let everyone know. I send out the gps coordinates to those that have radios connected to their gps and or wait for them to call. I can also use my truck as a repeater and use my handheld in camp away from the truck. If someone calls and I reply, my handheld connects to the trucks radio and is sent out using the trucks full 50 watts if needed.

I also don't see HAM price difference being worth it just to have higher quality signals. Unless you spend big bucks, you also won't see it coming in better quality wise than CB either. They are just as susceptible to interference as CB units in many cases. And unless you want a huge antenna on the top of your truck (like 6+ feet tall), don't expect to get super long range with it. HAM antennas, even on vehicles are huge. I can see the antenna getting easily damaged on the trail sitting that tall.

You do get more than higher quality signals than cb period. Again, for under 300.00. If simplex , yes you will be susceptible to interference due to terrain and propagation. But, the key here is, it's on a whole different level than the cb due to the amateur radio bandwidth. For example, 8km down the road a cb may loose signal. For the amateur radio, it could be 80km (approx) down the road. Apples to oranges. Using a repeater, no issue what so ever. Since Ontario has repeaters everywhere, you will have 100% full quieting all the time. That's crystal clear, even voice all the time. Now, if someone isn't hitting the repeater very well, then your audio will have problems until they can hit the repeater or bump their power up on there radio.

I have to clarify this, "Unless you spend big bucks, you also won't see it coming in better quality wise than CB either"

Yes you will. Absolutely. Without spending big bucks. And with antennas shorter than our CB antennas if you choose.

You do not need a 6 ft antenna. One my 2m ham antennas is 14 inches high and it gets "super long range." The majority of 2m antennas are shorter than CB antennas. In fact, most everyone will think your ham antenna is an CB antenna. You probably are seeing Ham sticks and HF antennas that are used for HF radios only. Those are 7'+, big, and ugly. My HF antennas though, are ugly, and a billion feet tall so those come off for trail rides.

Think about it, if a few members in the club had vhf, you might be organizing into groups more, keeping in touch with base camp no matter how far you are, and basically making decisions because everyone would be able to communicate. At our Jamborees, we have many different groups and trail rides out. If a group gets into trouble, they just radio base camp and we head out if needed.
[/quote]

HAM is neat, but there are a lot of draw-backs and really not needed for what we do with them. Get a higher quality radio and antenna if you really want longer range or better sound quality.

Ham is neat. You will also be labeled a geek. made fun of by spouses and friends.
From what I see there are no drawbacks. Like I said, if you have the power and range, you will use it. Getting a higher quality radio and antenna might help a bit with the cb or a ssb CB, but it's still a cb. You can only work and do so much with what you have. Cb frequency is actually in a great band width (HF), but due to it's window there, you can't utilize the band so low performance is always there.

Oh there is a draw back but a small one for what you gain. You have to study. You do have to study for 6-10 days average and then write a test, but it sure is worth it. It's not for everyone and cb's do just fine. But the jump is worth it and opens up a new experience.

There are plenty of other uses for it too. Our club does recovery for the pro car rally races that come through here. The rally uses amateur radio for all the communications. Plus, depending on the radio you get, it doubles as a scanner. Kinda handy.

Again, this isn't which is better reply, just my experience and I wanted to clarify a few things that were said.

[01R50]

Thanks for the detailed reply mookie. Lots of good info you posted.

Quality wise, I still see zero difference. I have a cheap cobra CB unit and signals come in crystal clear from 5km away. I don't know how much better it is suppose to be above crystal clear. Technically speaking, I am sure it is better, but I don't see how it is worth the difference. CB doesn't transmit as far, and may not have as many options, but that has nothing to do with quality, it was just designed to operate in a certain range. The vast majority of outings are with people within relatively close distance to each other.

Like I said, you posted a lot of good info. And I am glad that someone with more info was able to shine an expert light on the subject and the details. And you are right that they both have their uses. I too am not trying to make this a "this one is better" type of argument. But I personally don't see a use for it other than for certain situations (like where you said CB's don't seem to operate well in your area for some reason), more expert operations, or simply where a majority of people are using that certain setup. It wouldn't be a bad thing to have, but I can't see how the casual off-road person would have a use for that type of setup. Most off-road/4x4 groups I have see/read online seem to either be using CB's or cheap GMRS/FRS walkie-talkie radios.

Thanks for clearing up some misconceptions. I would love to see some details of your setup as it seems pretty cool. When you transmit your gps data to other members, is a computer connected to the radio, or is it a special gps unit?

[mookie]

Thanks for the detailed reply mookie. Lots of good info you posted.

Quality wise, I still see zero difference. I have a cheap cobra CB unit and signals come in crystal clear from 5km away. I don't know how much better it is suppose to be above crystal clear. Technically speaking, I am sure it is better, but I don't see how it is worth the difference. CB doesn't transmit as far, and may not have as many options, but that has nothing to do with quality, it was just designed to operate in a certain range. The vast majority of outings are with people within relatively close distance to each other.

Like I said, you posted a lot of good info. And I am glad that someone with more info was able to shine an expert light on the subject and the details. And you are right that they both have their uses. I too am not trying to make this a "this one is better" type of argument. But I personally don't see a use for it other than for certain situations (like where you said CB's don't seem to operate well in your area for some reason), more expert operations, or simply where a majority of people are using that certain setup. It wouldn't be a bad thing to have, but I can't see how the casual off-road person would have a use for that type of setup. Most off-road/4x4 groups I have see/read online seem to either be using CB's or cheap GMRS/FRS walkie-talkie radios.

Thanks for clearing up some misconceptions. I would love to see some details of your setup as it seems pretty cool. When you transmit your gps data to other members, is a computer connected to the radio, or is it a special gps unit?

I'm in complete agreement with you. And I'm out the door for work so shall reply with a few more words tonight!


**After work add on**: Ok, as I said in the other post and as you have said, CB is more than adequate for most uses. Most people will not need more than that. You said it right on, the casual person will not use the Ham setup.

We're in the Mountains or the eastern slopes so we always climbing up, and then down into the valley, hr after hr. On the highway cbs are great but when were on the trail, it's vhf. Relaying from front to back with cb just got frustrating.

The quality issue - My perception of quality was on another track than what you meant. I understand now. I guess what I was trying to say was (and we all know this) with Ham and repeaters, the quality of audio will be crystal clear from Southern Ont, to Northern Ont. Simplex, it's further than CB, but then you run into the same problems as CB eventually.

I wonder when I can do a little write up of what I have going on....Perhaps one night here I'll just do a quick summary of what I have. Just to answer your question quickly regarding the gps. With your Ham, you can hook up a gps to your ham radio. If your radio is new enough this is just a plug and play type of deal as the new radios have goodies built in for converting the gps signal to rf. If it's older like mine, then you need to buy a few things to hookup to it and spend a a bit of time setting it up. And then a bit more time because who reads manuals the first time around? Essentially, the gps will send the coordinates to the radio, the radio will then convert those coordinates into rf and send them out over the air (beaconing). Every 10 sec or what your preference you set, your location, speed, time, distance to or from each other will display on their gps screen and vice versa. You can also hit various weather stations in your area. You can send a text message that appears on the gps as well. Comes in handy when you're out of repeater range. Oh, and you can use a computer hooked up to the radio as well or just a normal gps. Depends on budget and what you may have around the house that you can use. The laptop is popular as sometimes we have old laptops kicking around.

[Simon]

Under normal circumstances, CB's seem to suit us just fine. That said, having 1 or two people out on each trail run, say at Adventure weekend, with HAM radio, along with another at base, would really be a great idea. Having that kind of failsafe could prove priceless if serious need arose.

[AlexJet]

Here is the post from a group which had trouble with CB being very close to each other, but in chalengable terrain. I've been in similar situation here in Ontario a few times as well. See why HAM is better:

That's a good point. Friggin CBs are useless from one end of a small canyon to another. It was two miles max from where Josh was stuck to where we were all waiting and trying to call him on the radio.

Ham radio is easy guys. It's silly not to take some time to take the test. It could save your bacon if you're ever out there alone or out of (crappy) CB range.

[LGM]

Question: Can you pick up CB frequencies on a ham radio?

(don't remember reading this)

[mookie]

Question: Can you pick up CB frequencies on a ham radio?

(don't remember reading this)

On my hand held ham, I can receive CB channels, but I can't transmit on CB frequencies. However, I can transmit and receive on FRS frequencies so that is handy.

On my mobile Ham, it's not able to be "opened up" to receive CB freq. but since its hard mounted in the truck, I don't need it to as obviously the CB is there to.

[mookie]

Here is the post from a group which had trouble with CB being very close to each other, but in chalengable terrain. I've been in similar situation here in Ontario a few times as well. See why HAM is better:

That's a good point. Friggin CBs are useless from one end of a small canyon to another. It was two miles max from where Josh was stuck to where we were all waiting and trying to call him on the radio.

Ham radio is easy guys. It's silly not to take some time to take the test. It could save your bacon if you're ever out there alone or out of (crappy) CB range.

I know what you are saying about ham. I tend to look at it as cb and ham are tools and both have their places and shine in their own environments in which they are suited. CB is all you need in certain environments/conditions. Ham has it's advantages in the same environments plus in more challenging type of environments and of course activities in which long distance communication is needed. If one is spending a fair amount of time in non cell coverage areas, then it's also peace of mind. We called for a tow truck in the backcountry when one of our trucks went off the road via ham radio. Just a tool to make things easier.

But yes, the ease in obtaining a license is simple and short. Within a week and half it's yours. The test is designed for the ages of 6 years old and up.

[Rev]

The inner geek in me wants to go ham every time I hear about it and you are not helping!

mmmmm. more wires and antennas to run!

All this talk of GPS tracking makes my inner geek vibrate with excitement.

So I better stop reading this thread.

[morb]

I had a ham set in the truck for a while but i took it out. I was having too much fun placing orders for people at the Timmies drive through and watching them get pissed as they drove away.